Inauguration

[lifer_refil]

I'm Agnostic.  I just don't want to bother with wondering how we or EVERYTHING was "created."  If there is a "God" who/what made him/her...and what made that being...and so on.  It's just too much to wonder about.  I have faith in myself to be a good person and I don't need a "higher power" to guide me, some people do and that's fine.  But as many of us agree, we don't need to be told YOU are right and WE are wrong - and that goes for believers and non-believers.

[Pirate Girl]

I'm Agnostic.  I just don't want to bother with wondering how we or EVERYTHING was "created."

You'll love one of my favourite quotes from Douglas adams then:

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"

[wafflestomper]

Most Christians would instantly say that "oh! well then you weren't a REAL Christian, you just pretended and lied your way through your faith" Wrong. Or the other response is "I just can't see how someone who was so close with God can just walk away from Him"



If you choose to believe in God as you know it, that's fine, you have that right and I have to admire your imagination because it far outshines my current one (and you're talking to a nerd).....but zealots of any religion beware, YOUR "answer" is not THE answer, because all religion is a matter of OPINION, you weren't there, you can't prove it and if you try you will fail. Just because it was written thousands of years ago doesn't make it true, the Scriptures (Torah, New Testament and Qu'ran) were all written by HUMAN BEINGS who had their own agendas and wanted to exclude groups based on personal prejudices and exclusivism and control people who they thought were less than them. That is the truth and FACT, it can be proven.


[/quote]

ouch guy,
haha.
you should know as well than that no one should be judging anyways, but i get where your coming from.

and i dont mean this to come out rude, but i have to disagree., i do believe God is real, theirs been somethings in my life personally that i feel if he had not been here, nor would i, or similar situations.

But that was a well written post, except i cant hail satan, lol.

[lifer_refil]

I'm Agnostic.  I just don't want to bother with wondering how we or EVERYTHING was "created."

You'll love one of my favourite quotes from Douglas adams then:

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"

I do love it.  Thanks for sharing.

and i dont mean this to come out rude, but i have to disagree., i do believe God is real, theirs been somethings in my life personally that i feel if he had not been here, nor would i, or similar situations.

But that was a well written post, except i cant hail satan, lol.

As I read it, the post was more about organized religion and believing/abiding by the Bible.  BG explains how the scripture made him change his beliefs, the big one being "there is no god."

Even though I'm sure it wasn't serious - Atheists will not "hail Satan" either as "he" is a Christian belief.

[wafflestomper]

whoops. sorry, i think i may need to re read, thank you for correcting me,though.

I got to start paying a little more attention.

Can someone explain to me what athiesm really is? i thought Athiesm was more towards satan and agnosticism ( is that a word?) is belief of nothing?

[Pirate Girl]

Wafflestomper, not surprisingly Satanism is a belief in satan as a deity. Which really is a twisted form of Christianity if you think about it.

I don't believe in Jesus, God, Allah, Jahweh, Odin or the Tooth Fairy come to that matter. Atheists believe that god was made in man's own image rather than other way round. Agnostics tend to hedge their bets more and go for the well it's unknowable/unprovable angle.

[auto-de-fe]

how does fox news know they do that?

[Formica Linoleum]

I just wanted to mention that there are many different types of Satanism. There's actually one called Atheistic Satanism, which uses Satan merely for symbolic purposes or something to that effect. It comes off a a huge oxymoron to me, but oh well. Then you have the Modern Satanist who don't actually worship Satan, but rather teach self-indulgence, materialism, individualism. Anton LaVey's Church of Satan was more like that.

So yeah, when you meet a Satanist, don't assume they worship the devil. They may just indulge in massive orgies, lots of booze and drugs. Rockstar!

[beautifulghost]

Atheists don't believe in anything and Agnositcs say neither way can be proven so they just "don't know" Until there is proof that "god" exists they choose to not believe.


And yes the "hail satan" was a joke and Formica is right there are MANY different "Satanists" out there, some of whom don't even believe in the devil at all. LeVay's Church of Satan is actually just Atheism to the utmost degree, but has way too many Humanistic elements for my taste, although I have to respect the fellow for trying....

[Trathena]

Hi! Such a flurry of posts since I last came to this thread! I don't know how to do multiple quotes here (or if that's even possible), so I'll try to remember what everyone said.

BeautifulGhost, don't worry about derailing this thread. How long could we talk about the inauguration anyway? This can be our Religion Thread from now on.

Wafflestomper, I don't think you'll offend anyone here with rational, respectful discussion about religion. I will say that in my experience there are three types of Christians: those who are worshipers of Jesus; those who are followers of Jesus; and those who are both.

It's a lot easier to worship Jesus than to actually follow him. This type of Christian is abundant.

It's very, very hard--impossible even--to actually follow Jesus. This type of Christian is rare, and, more often than not, this person isn't even a Christian at all.

Those who are both are nearly impossible to find, and I won't out him, but we do have one of those as a member on this board.

Also, fundamentalism and belief are two vastly different things.

Full disclosure: and here's where I can be hurtful, and it's awful, but I want to be honest. Then you can decide if you even want to talk about this with me anymore: Abrahamic God worshipers--all of them: Jew, Muslim, Christian--I cannot fully trust them. The God they worship--real or not--marks them (to me) as untrustworthy. They've chosen to worship a deity that I find inexcusably reprehensible. It tells me a lot about their ethics, what kind of person they're trying to be. I can't justify worshiping Jehovah as a moral act, much less a kind act, so I'll be the first in the thread to say that I do judge these believers.

But I've never considered judging someone on his/her choices in life as a bad thing. I don't mind being judged in return.  I think judging others is an understandable, self-protective, and rational thing to do.

I would never vote against Abrahamic God worshipers' civil rights; I would never harm them in any way; I won't even be rude to them unless that is earned. But I won't let my guard down around them either.

[Trathena]

Oh, and Satan is a Christian deity.

"The Adversary" from Genesis isn't necessarily Satan. Wasn't it Milton who conjoined the two in Paradise Lost? Or did Augustine postulate that they were the same entity and invented the "fallen Angels" story? I'm not sure.

And all religions and folklore have their own version of this "trickster."

But, good god, Wafflestomper, atheism is nothing more than a statement of unbelief in any gods, so why would we then turn around and believe in some kind of magical horned beast from the underworld that tempts us to get shitfaced, surf porn, and furiously masturbate on a lonely Saturday night?

[Pirate Girl]

But, good god, Wafflestomper, atheism is nothing more than a statement of unbelief in any gods, so why would we then turn around and believe in some kind of magical horned beast from the underworld that tempts us to get shitfaced, surf porn, and furiously masturbate on a lonely Saturday night?

Yeah... we as atheists can do all that without the need to have an imaginary horned friend to blame it on or worry about offending a white robed and haloed one with our hedonistic ways. It's so liberating being able to have a good old wank just for the sake of it and not have to worry about looking over your shoulder.

[Pirate Girl]

Can I just point out that Satan as the horned, goat legged beast is a Christian perversion of a much older deity than any of their own can boast? They turned the Pagan deity Pan into an evil devil when they were rampaging through Europe on one of their convert to Christianity or die a horrible death campaigns. Along with hijacking all the major Pagan festivals such as Yule (rebranded Christmas) and Easter.

Nice people.

[wafflestomper]

I try really hard to correct myself if i make a close minded opinion, I personally dont like to offend, Subjects like this often cause fighting, a friend and i almost got into a fist fight over this, simply because he is very irrational with his thinking, not cause he doesnt agree with me but because hes got the Alpha male role going.

[Pirate Girl]

Don't worry too much Wafflestomper - they say never argue about politics or religion and I think we've neatly covered both in one thread.