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05-20-2009, 07:14 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2009, 07:19 PM by Trathena.)
Wow. I'm shocked too. But probably not as shocked as you, Acrobat. I thought there was a good chance he'd win.
Spouse: "It's just one of those things. It's not like a B student beat an A student. An A student lost to an A- student. Adam was dumbfounded and wasn't a dickish loser. Kris was dumbfounded and wasn't a dickish winner. It's one of those things."
Indeed.
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I thought there was a good chance he'd win too, but still. I'm surprised to actually see it happen.
Also, Simon is an ass for not standing up for the winner. We know you love Adam, Simon, but stop being a dick.
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Yeah, don't take it out on Kris, you know?
Hell, I prefer Adam too, but I'll be damned if I say one negative word about Kris.
Great season! Thanks for letting me live blog it. And thank you to my partner in crime, Acrobat.
Peace Out!
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Trathena, you and Erin have been a riot all season with your live blogs. 
*high fives you both*
Oh and I'm really glad that Kris won, and Simon was a dick for not standing up. FU, Simon.
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05-21-2009, 05:00 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2009, 05:01 PM by Trathena.)
From Danny Gokey's minister:
Quote:Everyone who voted for @dannygokey should vote for Kris Allen! We need a believer to represent!
Isn't that so . . . Jesus-like?
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Seriously, what a douche.
And poor Kris. The backlash is already starting and he doesn't deserve any of it. I've heard enough of "America hates teh gay! Adam lost because of the Christian vote!" today to last me a lifetime. I've seen way too much of Democrats/atheists/etc. who preferred Kris and Christian Grandmas who love Adam to really believe that. Not to mention the fact that for every person who'd vote against Adam because of his sexuality, there's somebody who'd vote FOR him for the same reason.
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Yeah, I have to admit though, that I think Kris won because of the Christian/Arkansas vote. I'm sorry, but I do.
The Davids had 12 million votes between them. Adam and Kris had, what, 100 million? 38 million of those votes were out of Arkansas alone. Both Kris' and Danny's pastors were all over the Net telling evangelicals to vote for their own. Kris got Danny's votes. It ceased to be a talent competition when that happened.
And there is horrid, ugly, brutal, homophobic shit all over the Internet regarding Adam's orientation.
This doesn't mean that Kris didn't have legitimate votes that were cast based solely on preference to his singing, but I just think he had many, many millions more that were due to other issues.
And Kris thinks this too. He could barely look Adam in the eye last night.
None of this disparages or negates his talent, and he doesn't deserve the backlash he's going to get. But we can't be silent in the face of obvious bigotry when we see it.
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Trathena Wrote:Adam and Kris had, what, 100 million? 38 million of those votes were out of Arkansas alone.
I really, really hate this rumor. That news story was false and has been retracted. AT&T was asked about it and they said, "Uh, no." Even if it still sounds fishy to you, think of it this way: you really think the rest of the 305 million people in this country only cast 60 million votes? People vote more on finale nights as a rule anyway, and the voting window is twice as long.
I don't doubt that some people voted against Adam because of his sexual orientation. Just like I'm quite sure that some people heard about that, were outraged over it, and voted for him because of it. I kind of thought the same way about the presidential election -- for every asshole who voted against Obama specifically because he's black, there was a better-intentioned but equally misguided person who voted for him for that same reason. I think it evens out.
Thing is, we're WAY more plugged-in to Idol than the average viewer. You didn't even realize Adam was gay until I told you. I didn't know about Kris' religious beliefs until you mentioned something. There are a lot of people the same way, way more who knew but didn't care, a small segment who knew and voted for him strictly because of it, and a small segment of douchebags who sat down for several hours and got in 10 anti-Adam votes through a shit-ton of busy signals.
And Danny's pastor has, what, 300 followers on Twitter?
I'm usually the first person to cry foul on something like this, but I really do think that the majority of America views Idol as exactly what it's supposed to be, which is a talent show. They watch it two nights a week and then don't think anything more about it. You and I turn it into a sociological experiment because it's fun to do so and the media turns it into a culture war because it's good for ratings, but I think most of the viewers really just don't care.
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Quote:I'm usually the first person to cry foul on something like this, but I really do think that the majority of America views Idol as exactly what it's supposed to be, which is a talent show. They watch it two nights a week and then don't think anything more about it. You and I turn it into a sociological experiment because it's fun to do so and the media turns it into a culture war because it's good for ratings, but I think most of the viewers really just don't care.
I completely agree with this Erin. I never used to watch Idol AT ALL really until last season. Sure I had watched it prior to that, but never cared that much about it. But it is fun to turn it into a sociological experiment and it makes it a bit deeper then just watching the show and not caring.
Did that make sense? I haven't had coffee yet. (its brewing)
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OK, look, I'm sorry about the incorrect info. It was AT&T themselves who said it (from what I understand). If they've retracted it, OK. Fine. I was full of shit. But it's not like I was getting this from Star magazine or something.
The thing is, Erin, all reality shows are sociological experiments. As soon as "America" gets involved, it's society. You and I aren't far off, I think. We're just smarter than the average tv viewer.
As far as the pastors go, their twitter posts went viral. But they weren't saying anything that wasn't already being said by many others, so I'll leave it at that.
I know what it means for me to say that Kris got Danny's votes. I know what that means. How it sounds. I'd never say something like that in front of him or anywhere he'd likely see it. I'm a nobody from Illinois who has a sensitivity for things like this, nothing more.
The one to put an end to these comments? That'd be Adam. And I won't be surprised when he does.
But I think I'll shut up about it now anyway. :-)
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Trathena Wrote:We're just smarter than the average tv viewer.
I'd like to point out that I'm smarter than the average tv viewer because I don't watch this crap. hiyo!!! 
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05-22-2009, 07:36 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2009, 07:41 PM by Acrobat.)
Trathena Wrote:OK, look, I'm sorry about the incorrect info. It was AT&T themselves who said it (from what I understand). If they've retracted it, OK. Fine. I was full of shit. But it's not like I was getting this from Star magazine or something.
Oh, I know you weren't -- it originally came from a legit news source, but that news story came from bad information in the first place. Found it.
Quote:The thing is, Erin, all reality shows are sociological experiments.
Absolutely. Hell, I said the same thing on the first page of this thread, I think. Heh.
Quote:As soon as "America" gets involved, it's society. You and I aren't far off, I think. We're just smarter than the average tv viewer.
That's actually exactly what I wanted to say (you just worded it better). You and I look at the show that way because we're smarter than the average TV viewer, sure. I just meant that I don't think most of America looks at it that way, as a "I'm voting for/against X contestant because of their religion/race/sexuality/anything else that isn't related to the music."
I think in this case the votes are just a reflection of the fact that America prefers a safer, easier-to-listen-to brand of contestant, which is why I'm still shocked that David Cook won last year. I've never spoken to a person in real life about the show who said anything beyond, "Oh, X contestant is my favorite." With Twitter posts going viral, it again goes back to the whole "You and I take this more seriously and read more about it than most of the viewers." I just don't think that the majority of the people who watched the finale even knew about them.
Quote:I know what it means for me to say that Kris got Danny's votes. I know what that means. How it sounds. I'd never say something like that in front of him or anywhere he'd likely see it. I'm a nobody from Illinois who has a sensitivity for things like this, nothing more.
The one to put an end to these comments? That'd be Adam. And I won't be surprised when he does.
Believe it or not, Adam and Kris BOTH said on Larry King that they thought Danny's votes went to Kris. Heh. I was shocked that they'd even go there. They rationalized it as a "If you liked Danny's music, you'd be more likely to enjoy Kris' style to Adam's." Which is actually totally true and a fair point to make, but there's more to that and they either 1) chose not to acknowledge it, 2) don't think it's an issue, or 3) aren't allowed to acknowledge it as part of their Idol contracts. I'm leaning towards a mixture of 1 and 3 there. They're not stupid.
So no, we're not far apart on this at all. Do I think Adam's sexuality and Kris' religion affected the voting? You betcha. We just disagree about the scope of its impact.
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spaz Wrote:I'd like to point out that I'm smarter than the average tv viewer because I don't watch this crap. hiyo!!!
hahaha! Brat!
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Acrobat Wrote:So no, we're not far apart on this at all. Do I think Adam's sexuality and Kris' religion affected the voting? You betcha. We just disagree about the scope of its impact.
You're dead to me now.
heeheehee! :-)
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I am not an AI watcher. However, the people I work with were talking about it sooooo much over the last couple of weeks that I crumbled and tuned in a little for the last two shows (yay for not missing Cyndi Lauper).
I'm shocked, but not surprised that Adam did not win. I'm shocked due to the overwhelming amount of media coverage surrounding him as being the winner before he even won. I saw Simon on Oprah before the finale, and he basicially crowned Adam the winner. Everyone in my office was pulling for Adam. Half of them are hardcore Southern Baptist women who didn't care if he was gay or not, so I thought, "well, just maybe sexual orientation won't matter."
In the aftermath, I began to think about past idol winners and Adam didn't really seem to fit the AI winner mold in my opinion. He's not your average everyday looking American (gay or not). I don't remember any other winner having the non-traditional male style, but I never watched the show, so I might be off on my theory.
Either way, I think Adam is better off not winner. I think his career will be much better without it. The numbers don't lie, and from what I understand he is higher ranked on iTunes than Kris.
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05-23-2009, 02:07 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2009, 02:12 PM by Acrobat.)
Formica Linoleum Wrote:Everyone in my office was pulling for Adam. Half of them are hardcore Southern Baptist women who didn't care if he was gay or not, so I thought, "well, just maybe sexual orientation won't matter."
See, and this is why I'm so reluctant to attribute Kris' win to any anti-gay vote, though I admit my own similar personal experience and other stories like this are only anecdotal evidence and might not mean anything. I'm not saying the lunatic fringe didn't get in some anti-Adam votes, I just don't think that's what tipped the scales in Kris' favor.
Quote:In the aftermath, I began to think about past idol winners and Adam didn't really seem to fit the AI winner mold in my opinion. He's not your average everyday looking American (gay or not). I don't remember any other winner having the non-traditional male style
THIS. I think you nailed it. Adam inspires hardcore fans, but he also inspires a shit-ton of, "WTF? Stop screaming, dude." Completely removing Adam's perceived sexuality from the equation, what he does just doesn't sell as well as what Kris does.
Take their celebrity duets from the finale -- Adam did an awesome over-the-top performance with KISS, complete with pyrotechnics and smoke and guitar-smashing. Kris sang a cute country/pop song with Keith Urban. Adam easily wins in the holy-shit-did-you-SEE-that? department, but... America doesn't buy that kind of stuff en masse. It makes great TV, but it doesn't have a chance in hell of cracking the Top 40. But the song that Kris did with Urban? Has suddenly jumped into the iTunes Top 10.
Quote: but I never watched the show, so I might be off on my theory.
You're not. Three words: "Ring of Fire." Or five words, if you're Kara.
Quote:The numbers don't lie, and from what I understand he is higher ranked on iTunes than Kris.
I've heard different things on this, so I went and looked, and I think this is really telling: Adam is winning in video sales, but Kris is winning in audio sales. (Two songs in the top 10, both of which are ranked higher than Adam's one song. And four in the top 25 to Adam's two). Yesterday Kris had the #1 spot.
So I think they'll both be just fine provided they can/want to/are allowed to release the right kind of material. I think the ideal career (and musical) type for Kris would be along the lines of Gavin DeGraw or Jason Mraz. I see Adam a Robbie Williams type, and probably more successful in Europe than America.
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05-23-2009, 02:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2009, 02:55 PM by bxdash.)
I don't really watch this show, but am friggin surrounded by all of the discussing and reporting of it, everywhere I go (net or real life).
so i might as well voice some sort of an opinion somewhere where I don't feel like I'll get hunted down and raped for speaking my mind.
First off...
I really HATE this show now. I hate what it (actually) stands for. The sort of ignorance it breeds about music and talent. What the voting usually represents in the early stages (incredible bias based on things other than talent...Sanjaya anyone?). I also despise what it does to the TV landscape EVERY FUCKING SEASON.
but fuck me if I'm not always interested in the train wreck auditions...
anyway,
I just don't think that the "is he gay" thing was the real reason Adam didn't win. I'm not saying that I don't think there was voting going on in that hateful vein, but I just think that he was always an "outsider" type of contestant. Once the division of Kris and Danny's votes went out the window, the scale just tipped Kris's way. They're both "middle of the road" type characters. All of Danny's votes probably just went that way, and most likely not because of some religious movement (this wasn't "The Passion" folks). Adam was always fighting a losing battle, it was him against the odds, no matter how the media wanted to make him up to be the front runner. He may have gotten higher votes early on, but its truly in the division of the other votes that that made this happen. Thats my view of it. He just didnt have all of America's back, even if he is more talented.
There might have been a little of the "melinda doolittle" factor in there too , where people jsut felt like they didnt have to vote for her and she was good, because everyone agreed with them and would do it for them.....(I swear I don't watch this show).....
I still havent watched a full solo performance by any of this season's contestants, I tuned in just for Queen on the Finale, and knew when that was gonna happen do to east coast airings... typically enough, I found Kris sounded better in the soft parts and Adam better in the ballsy parts.
sigh...
I wish this show would die, Or I wish it would air in some sort of earlier airing period, out of Prime Time. I'm bitter,... I just want scripted TV back, and flourishing....don't get me wrong, I dont want remakes of Knight Rider either... oh and fuck you Jay Leno
I just sort of wish that Fox never existed sometimes. Ever since who wants to marry a millionaire, TV went to hell in a handbasket.
done...
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Acrobat Wrote:I've heard different things on this, so I went and looked, and I think this is really telling: Adam is winning in video sales, but Kris is winning in audio sales. (Two songs in the top 10, both of which are ranked higher than Adam's one song. And four in the top 25 to Adam's two). Yesterday Kris had the #1 spot.
So I think they'll both be just fine provided they can/want to/are allowed to release the right kind of material. I think the ideal career (and musical) type for Kris would be along the lines of Gavin DeGraw or Jason Mraz. I see Adam a Robbie Williams type, and probably more successful in Europe than America.
You were smart and went directly to the source. I was just going by what I read on um.. *cough*perez*cough* I know. I should be shot.
And may I never be sucked into the AI tunnel again, please. I tried so hard to stay out of it at work. So hard.
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Formica Linoleum Wrote:Acrobat Wrote:I've heard different things on this, so I went and looked, and I think this is really telling: Adam is winning in video sales, but Kris is winning in audio sales. (Two songs in the top 10, both of which are ranked higher than Adam's one song. And four in the top 25 to Adam's two). Yesterday Kris had the #1 spot.
So I think they'll both be just fine provided they can/want to/are allowed to release the right kind of material. I think the ideal career (and musical) type for Kris would be along the lines of Gavin DeGraw or Jason Mraz. I see Adam a Robbie Williams type, and probably more successful in Europe than America.
You were smart and went directly to the source. I was just going by what I read on um.. *cough*perez*cough* I know. I should be shot.
And may I never be sucked into the AI tunnel again, please. I tried so hard to stay out of it at work. So hard.
Hehe, no worries Formica. I have a few guilty pleasure sites I read often. I swore this year I wasn't going to get sucked in after last year with david cook. And I did.
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American idol is my favorite reality show i like to watch this show at Television and So this one is a best show and all the singer are singing really nice song in this reality show.
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